Guidance Team Meeting

New Hope Christian Fellowship

March 25, 2002

Tom Morris brought the meeting to order, and Clyde Waters opened with prayer.

The agenda for this meeting was passed out and Tom Morris asked if everyone understood the purpose for this meeting was to discuss the Resignation of Bryan Keisler and the TLC Committee.

Tom Morris passed around two pages from the last meetings minutes and asked that everyone read through them.

Tom Morris asked if we had any questions or concerns about the accuracy of these minutes. There were no concerns.

Tom Morris asked that all comments be addressed to him and he will act as moderator.

Jo Eller asked Bryan what kind of Cliche they have, what does he call a cliché and who is in the cliché. Bryan Keisler stated that the ones he considers a cliché in the church are "Donna Raines, Donna Wilson, Jo Eller, Jill, Nell, and Reeder. If you are not in that group, if something happens to you, you don’t get anything. I am under the impression that the TLC Committee was supposed to send a card or flowers if you have surgery or someone dies. If I am wrong, so be it. Even when Jimmy Goudelock was here, that is why some of them left. They never got a visit or anything else whenever their loved one was in the hospital."

Billy Bland asked if the other people could be identified. Bryan Keisler said that Robbie and Kim Hodges was one couple. Robbie had a heart catheterization and Kim told Jimmy Goudelock that he was having it on a Monday and asked him to be there. He never showed up. He never got a get-well card from the TLC Committee or from the church. You have had Jean Cooper that had surgery and Earl Cooper, when his father died. Barbara McLean that had open-heart surgery and finally got a flower after it was brought to the Guidance Team, and myself. That is the ones that I know of.

Tom Morris would like to encourage us to look at this in terms of some kind of action we want to take. If we are just going to have a back and forth argument without getting some action, we may be here for a long time. Jo Eller stated that she was not arguing she just wanted to know.

Donna Wilson requested that the Guidance Team tell us what the criteria are for the TLC. Donna Wilson--"If I am not mistaken, please correct me if I am wrong. It is my understanding that when there is a death in the family, the TLC Committee responds with a flower and so forth. This includes parents, spouse, and children; it does not include brothers, sisters, and cousins. If you get caught up in all that, it becomes a burden rather than something that you want to do as a ministry. Tom Morris--The question has been asked if we have any guidelines for the TLC Committee. Donna Raines stated that the guidelines were drawn up and given to Billy Bland on several occasions. Billy Bland—One occasion. Donna Raines said more than one occasion, but yes they are written down.

Donna Raines requested to speak and told Bryan that when he had surgery, she did not know until after he was back at church. Bryan stated that it was put out on the e-group. Donna R. said that she doesn’t read it all the time and she does not have a crystal ball. If no one tells her, she does not know. Donna R--When Barbara McLean was in the hospital, I had cancer. I could not do for anybody else because I was dealing with that myself. Did you come to see me, did you send me a card, or did you bring me a meal? Bryan Keisler—No ma’am I did not because I did not feel welcomed to. Tom Morris—Please address the chair.

Tom Morris—I believe I heard a request for the guidelines. Does anybody have a copy of that at this meeting?

Frank Bender—I would like to know why this has not been brought to the attention of the Guidance Team sooner. If this has been going on since Jimmy Goudelock was here, then why has it just come up now?

Jo Eller—Now about this clique. What do you call friends. We have been friends for years. Does Bryan not have any friends? Do they call them cliques? Can you have a friend without being a cliche?

Billy Bland—I obviously am wrong about how the TLC should operate. I thought of them as a part of the church body. A central point that would kind of provide things. I have never thought of it as them doing it all. I thought of it as a church wide function to provide TLC. If somebody walks in and says to me that ‘so and so is in the hospital, and I have taken them a meal.’ Then I thought it was taken care of. I thought that is the way we did it. I thought we saw about our friends, I thought we saw about Bryan. It never occurred to me that you had to get something that said this is from the TLC Committee of NHCF. That is just my opinion. Bryan, I thought that we tried to see about you as best we could. Just because you did not get a card form Donna Raines, that means nothing to me. I thought we tried to see about you. That is just my opinion.

Beth Zboran—I feel that the main problem that we have here is that the Pastor does not know. He needs to know, not only so that he can visit, but that it can be placed on the Prayer List. If our mother or brother dies someone could send a card. Donna Wilson—I did receive cards when my brother died. Beth Zboran—If my mother died tomorrow, she is in Atlanta, and I would not expect you all to bring me a meal. I think there is a communication problem here and we need to get to the heart of this instead of bickering about whom did what and when.

Clyde Waters—I have two observations. One is that the e-mail is great but it is not as good as the telephone. It has failed numerous times even in this church. Like last week, we came over for a Guidance Team meeting and found out there wasn’t one. It is just not reliable. I think we are seeing again more evidence that everything needs to be written down on some kind of document that is approved by the church. Whether you call it the Constitution and By-laws, or whatever you want to call it. There are so many misunderstandings and the ball gets dropped everywhere. That is just my observation.

Pat Thomas—I for one would like to have copy of who you contact on the TLC exactly what their duties are. Donna Raines—I have a copy at home, I can bring it.

Frank Bender—Getting back to my question that was never answered. Why has we waited so long to bring this forward. I can only ask the people who have been hurt by this and Bryan you are the only one here. Can you tell us why you waited so long?

Bryan—I was hoping that it would get better Frank. Frank--That is the only reason. Bryan—Yes, I hoped we would get closer together, but we have just gotten farther apart.

Nell Morris—I am like Donna, things were done for Barbara, I came to the Guidance Team meeting and I went to Barbara and told her " Barbara I failed to send you flowers." She told me to put them in the church for their anniversary. So I did and she picked them up that Sunday. We went and visited Barbara; Wadene and I went to the hospital and saw Bruce when she had her surgery. I know several other people helped to take care of Barbara. So I don’t think it was a cliche doing it. If you want to call it a clique, ok; I think we were doing this out of the goodness of our heart. It wasn’t only us that did it, but several out of the church out of pure concern, not because we were in a cliche.

Lynnette Bland—When Barbara was sick, I was told by Bruce that Barbara did not want company. I sent e-mail, but I did not go to visit her. I was told that by her friends that said that she did not want visitors. To address one more thing we need a chain of command or something so that when you are sick you can contact the pastor or your shepherd and they contact the TLC or what. We need a set procedure so that this doesn’t happen again. Obviously, Bryan is hurt and whether we did that intentionally or not. This person still has hurt feelings, and we need to make sure it doesn’t happen again. We need a set procedure that is publicized so that everybody knows what to do when a situation arises. I have never been in a situation where I needed the TLC committee. I don’t feel like I have been neglected in anyway, but there are obviously people in our church and folks that were here previously that felt like they were, and even if we don’t agree with their feelings, they still have them and they are still hurt. I don’t know how to correct that particular part, but I think that we need to try to set up something so that doesn’t happen again.

Billy Bland—I agree with that, and I feel that there is a breakdown; but Bryan, I apologize. I assure you that no one has picked you name out and decided that we would not send Bryan Keisler something. We have had some breakdowns here. These other people, a lot of them were seen about. And that is all I am going to say.

Lynnette Bland—As for Jean Cooper, Barbara knew about her surgery, and sat at the Guidance Team meeting that Monday night and did not say everything. Jean and Earl did not tell us.

Pat Bender—For the record on the Lack of Communication, when Carson was our pastor here we asked him and he basically placed it all on the shepherds as a whole. He leaned on the shepherds, and he felt that they were in place and if he were contacted he would let us know. But he did not get involved unless we had a situation that we felt we could not handle. W ran on a wing and a prayer for almost two years on our own and I think we did as best we could. Secondly as far as TLC is concerned, my name is on TLC and I did not even know it. I have addressed all of these people that have been mentioned tonight, not because I am TLC, but because I do this as a friend. I have addressed Bryan, and Barbara, and Jean and Earl. I tried to keep up with it. And now that we have someone in place we are trying to keep the lines of communication opened between Jef and the Shepherds. If we go back as far as Jimmy, that is a dead issue, water under the bridge, and we cannot go back there.

Jo Eller—My feelings are hurt and I feel like I have never mistreated Bryan in anyway. Ask him if I have ever mistreated him in anyway. Bryan—No, Jo you haven’t.

Tom Morris—Billy Bland made a motion that we update the TLC procedures and especially focus on lines of communications. We need to be identified. Billy and Wendi—The Guidance Team. Tom Morris—the motion has been made, Beth Zboran seconded it.

Wadene Morris—I think that not only the pastor needs to be notified, but their Shepherd needs to be notified also. Don’t email me because I don’t answer it. Give me a phone call. Pat Thomas-- I don’t have a computer at my home either.

Beth Zboran—We got a list of all the Shepherd teams last Sunday in church. I would like to have everybody’s telephone numbers on that list. Pat Bender—you are going to get it. That was just the first step. Beth Zboran—Good, if we have to update this list every two months, we should do so to keep it current. As long as everyone in this church has everyone else’s phone number, hopefully someone is going to know. Jo Eller—We had it set up that one would call one Shepherd and then that Shepherd would call another. Pat Bender—I have personally called all the Shepherds in the past couple of months and requested that they call all members on their lists. If anyone did not get a call then I should know about it. Frank Bender—Can we prevent what has happened here just two weeks ago with Jean Cooper. There were people sitting at this very table and knew she was going into surgery the next day and did not say a word. —We can make it a point to ask. --Why not ask during announcements every Sunday if anyone is having surgery or knows of anyone else that is. That might cover it. This meeting is only once a month, and we need to cover it better. Jef Tobias—I will tell you right now that Donna Mills is going in for tests tomorrow morning at 10:30. Wendi Berg—the only problem that I have with announcing this every Sunday is that long announcements is going to cut into our worship service. Jef has even mentioned in our worship planning meetings that we should start with announcements at five ‘til so we can get the entire sermon in.

Tom Morris—There is a motion on the floor that we come up with updated guidelines for the TLC committee and it has been seconded. I am still a little bit confused about who is going to go over these guidelines. Pat Bender—There are guidelines in place and they have already been voted on by the church. I think they should be presented to the guidance team and see if they need to be updated. Tom Morris—OK we will change the motion to state that the TLC Guidelines will be brought before the next Guidance Team and will be discussed at that time. Donna Raines—I will bring those to the Guidance Team and I am letting everyone know that at this time I am resigning that position. I have been doing it since the church started, and I think it is time for someone else to do it.

Tom Morris—Are we ready to vote. Motion carried. That will be on the agenda of the next meeting. Billy Bland—Can I ask one more question? Bryan does any of this make a difference to you? Bryan K—No, I still feel the same way. Lynnette Bland—Bryan what can we do to make you feel better? Bryan K.-- It is too late for me. I am still going to come here, and I am still going to sing in the Choir. Tom Morris—that takes care of the second thing on the agenda, now we need to discuss Bryan Keisler’s resignation if he is going to go forward with that. Wendi Berg—I agree with the minutes and I was asked if there was any money for guest musicians. There is money and it is $25 a Sunday. There is $100 total budgeted for this. Jo Eller—I don’t know whether Bryan would want to play or not if he feels like he does. Tom Morris—this is a touchy matter. I stated last time that if we began discussing personnel that Bryan should not be here.

Billy Bland—Do you have to make a motion not to make a motion? Tom Morris—Well if there is no motion made, we will be without an organist and we can adjourn and all go home. Billy Bland—I am very uncomfortable hiring a musician full time at this time. Donna Wilson—Do we not need to act on this? The agenda says that we will act on this resignation. Wee can choose not to accept his resignation, but if he chooses not to play, what are we going to do? I make a motion that we accept Brian’s resignation as organist. Not because I want him to resign, but that is what this stipulates. I don’t think we can force Brian to do something that he does not want to do. That is not fair to ask him to do that. I make the motion to accept his resignation. Tom Morris—A motion has been made is there a second? Billy Bland—I second. Tom Morris—is there any discussion? Beth Zboran—I have a question. Is there physically any money in the treasury at this time to pay a musician at this time? Billy Bland—there is nothing stated in the budget for a second musician. Lynnette Bland—I think what she is trying to say is there any money regardless what the budget says. The paper can be changed. Is there any way to move moneys around to pay another person? Billy Bland—It is hard to say. There is today, but the balance in our checking account has dropped $10,000 in the last month. If it continues to drop at that rate, there is going to have to be some other discussions. Lynnette Bland—Can I ask Bryan a question? We are assuming that Bryan does not want to play because of what was in the letter, But is there more to it than that. Personally I enjoy having him play, I love his music, and I love Bryan. I don’t know if there is anyway to work this out. For somebody that had this kind of God given talent, I know that there was a time that he enjoyed playing in the church. Is there nothing we can do short of paying you to play? Bryan Keisler—Right now, it feels more like a job than a pleasure. Tom Morris—OK, any other discussion on the motion? All in favor of accepting the resignation of Bryan Keisler raise your right hand. Any opposed? The motion carried. The floor is opened to any other business pertaining to the business. Beth Long—I have tried staying out of this as much as I could, but there has been so much anger among certain members. It is spilling over into others. I don’t know what Barbara is angry about, but I know Bryan has been hurt. I have heard about the cliches I am guilty I thought the same thing. If found out the first year I went on the retreat. Someone thought I was in a chique because I was in the Choir. They did not know what was going on. Last week I got to be the victim of the anger and hurt, and it was bad. This person was upset and instead of bringing it up along time ago, they let it fester. If you have that much anger in you, then you need to stay awhile and calm down, then come back and look at it objectively. This waiting for months and months is ridiculous. If you have a problem with someone and you can’t go to him or her, and you can’t go to the Guidance Team then the problem must be with yourself. You are not doing what you need to do to get it resolved. There should never be that much hate and anger with any of us that we can’t talk about it. Lynnette Bland—I agree, this is not a country club. This is a church. It ought to be where you can say what hurts you and maybe have something worked out. Billy Bland—I think that in every situation there are good things and bad things. If you reach the point where you let the bad things prevail… I feel real bad and I feel that I am in a situation where there isn’t anything that I can do. I feel like I have been thrown away. Maybe you feel that way too. That is just the way I feel. Jo Eller—Beth Long tell us who hurt your feelings. Beth Long—it was Shirley. She was here two Sunday evenings ago and she let it fly on me. It hurt my feelings. We had youth here, and they could hear everything that was being said back here. I came back here to ask them to keep it quiet, and they said they didn’t care.

Wendi Berg—Do I need to find someone to play the piano for me when I am gone? Lynnette Bland—I have a suggestion that if it is agreeable with Bryan then he could play for Wendi when she was not going to be here. Is there any objection from the group. Frank Bender—I would go on the record in just saying that I have been working with Bryan on the facilities and maintenance team and when we got this church, Bruce helped me mow the grass. Barbara got mad about something and told Bruce he could not mow the grass anymore. Bryan came to me and volunteered to help me. We had a conversation about we could not figure out why anyone would quit mowing the Lord’s grass. I don’t feel like this is the Bryan that I know. Bryan skin is much thicker than it is tonight. I hope your skin will thicken up to the point where it was that day that we had our discussion.

I hope his skin will come back to its normal condition, and he will get over this in time.

Jef Tobias—I am new here and I don’t know a lot of people, but I am perceptive, and Bryan I just want you to know that these people love you and they want you to play; but not if you don’t want to, They do love you. They really do. Angie Martin—I would just like to say that Bryan you said that the joy is gone, but if the joy ever comes back, please let us know. We are all here for you. I thank you for everything you did for my mom. Wendi Berg—I make a motion that we adjourn. Jef Tobias closed the meeting with prayer.